Clojurians Log v2

@surreal.analysis: yep, I definitely want that to be the case. I’d love to help build a strong community roadmap for stuff I don’t have time to do personally.

@luke hope there's a beginner that's part of the core team since that's the target audience

Yep! Jamie is an intermediate Clojure developer and Jay is just getting into programming itself.

Also Russ is an old-school rubyist, and he cares a lot about developer experience and ease of use.

and feedback certainly won’t be restricted to that group, either… I hope you try stuff out and let me know what seems weird or hard, when I get stuff released.

damn that was a failed attempt to be part of the core team

haha! Well it’s hard to have a fluent meeting, practically, with more than 10 people. But I hope a lot more people are heavily involved than just that group.

re the asset pipeline, please don’t use node or something outside of the clojure ecosystem.

especially if one of the target audiences is total beginners

imagine running into an issue where for some reason the node modules are corrupted (which happens a lot) and you need to basically delete the node_modules directory and do npm install again to fix the issue

a beginner that has no experience with node won’t be able to troubleshoot that

nevermind having to make sure that both the asset pipeline doesn’t break because of the an upgrade or downgrade to node

@roberto: I second your point. One of clojures strengths is how easy it is to get started with leiningen and its templates. The hops you have to take for some other frameworks are partially insane. Thinking of deploying a django application for instance.

ugh, yeah, python deployment turned me away from that

yes, I like leiningen, clojure web dev weakness (for newcomers) is not there, it is in the libraries.

for example, I ran into issues with compojure routes and adding middlewares. If you have more than 1 route, the order in which you apply routes matters.

It is very insidous

no matter how pretty and cleaver the template generate gets, those wrinkles won’t be fixed by them.

they are very useful for intermediate to advanced users, but not so useful to beginners (with no prior experience in clojure and/or programming)

imo the key to the asset pipeline will be figuring out a good protocol

I know a bunch of rails devs who hate sprockets, but stick with it because it’s too much effort to change

personally i’d want to use a node-based asset pipeline, but I can see why a simpler clojure-based thing would be better for beginners

yes, I think it should have its own asset pipeline, but also be possible to opt out and wire in a custom one. Not sure how easy that would be, but don’t think it is a priority for v1

for instance, I would love to have the option to develop inside arachne both frontend and backend, but be able to deploy separately and independently. If it is an SPA, just deploy assets to maybe S3 and the backend to a traditional server.