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luke 2016-05-18T14:04:35.000185Z

@surreal.analysis: yep, I definitely want that to be the case. I’d love to help build a strong community roadmap for stuff I don’t have time to do personally.

lewix 2016-05-18T14:06:15.000186Z

@luke hope there's a beginner that's part of the core team since that's the target audience

luke 2016-05-18T14:07:18.000187Z

Yep! Jamie is an intermediate Clojure developer and Jay is just getting into programming itself.

luke 2016-05-18T14:07:50.000188Z

Also Russ is an old-school rubyist, and he cares a lot about developer experience and ease of use.

luke 2016-05-18T14:08:24.000189Z

and feedback certainly won’t be restricted to that group, either… I hope you try stuff out and let me know what seems weird or hard, when I get stuff released.

lewix 2016-05-18T14:09:09.000190Z

damn that was a failed attempt to be part of the core team

luke 2016-05-18T14:10:45.000193Z

haha! Well it’s hard to have a fluent meeting, practically, with more than 10 people. But I hope a lot more people are heavily involved than just that group.

roberto 2016-05-18T14:41:00.000194Z

re the asset pipeline, please don’t use node or something outside of the clojure ecosystem.

roberto 2016-05-18T14:41:17.000195Z

especially if one of the target audiences is total beginners

roberto 2016-05-18T14:42:07.000196Z

imagine running into an issue where for some reason the node modules are corrupted (which happens a lot) and you need to basically delete the node_modules directory and do npm install again to fix the issue

roberto 2016-05-18T14:42:37.000197Z

a beginner that has no experience with node won’t be able to troubleshoot that

roberto 2016-05-18T14:43:39.000198Z

nevermind having to make sure that both the asset pipeline doesn’t break because of the an upgrade or downgrade to node

sveri 2016-05-18T17:37:43.000199Z

@roberto: I second your point. One of clojures strengths is how easy it is to get started with leiningen and its templates. The hops you have to take for some other frameworks are partially insane. Thinking of deploying a django application for instance.

roberto 2016-05-18T17:43:51.000200Z

ugh, yeah, python deployment turned me away from that

roberto 2016-05-18T17:48:42.000201Z

yes, I like leiningen, clojure web dev weakness (for newcomers) is not there, it is in the libraries.

roberto 2016-05-18T17:49:29.000202Z

for example, I ran into issues with compojure routes and adding middlewares. If you have more than 1 route, the order in which you apply routes matters.

roberto 2016-05-18T17:49:37.000203Z

It is very insidous

roberto 2016-05-18T17:50:10.000204Z

no matter how pretty and cleaver the template generate gets, those wrinkles won’t be fixed by them.

roberto 2016-05-18T18:01:03.000205Z

they are very useful for intermediate to advanced users, but not so useful to beginners (with no prior experience in clojure and/or programming)

glenjamin 2016-05-18T18:01:43.000206Z

imo the key to the asset pipeline will be figuring out a good protocol

glenjamin 2016-05-18T18:02:11.000207Z

I know a bunch of rails devs who hate sprockets, but stick with it because it’s too much effort to change

glenjamin 2016-05-18T18:02:32.000208Z

personally i’d want to use a node-based asset pipeline, but I can see why a simpler clojure-based thing would be better for beginners

roberto 2016-05-18T18:29:41.000210Z

yes, I think it should have its own asset pipeline, but also be possible to opt out and wire in a custom one. Not sure how easy that would be, but don’t think it is a priority for v1

roberto 2016-05-18T18:31:10.000211Z

for instance, I would love to have the option to develop inside arachne both frontend and backend, but be able to deploy separately and independently. If it is an SPA, just deploy assets to maybe S3 and the backend to a traditional server.