Clojurians Log v2

Is it basically a LiveOps staff channel currently? They're really the only other place I know using clojure, other than @danielcompton. Mind you, I've not really followed local clojure things much lately

And SMX of course

+ @cfleming and Montoux in Wellington

There actually aren’t that many of us here. Just myself and maria.

I was discounting us (SMX) - but how could I forget @cfleming :simple_smile:

@talios: You’re from SMX? I’ve met a couple of your co-workers at a meetup like mid last year. I keep expecting to see more of you dudes.

yep - that was probably Colin and/or Isaac

@lfn3: too busy 😜 And er, I don’t overly like clojure much any more ( well, I lie - I do, I just love my types more. Sadly I’m in the minority here 😜 )

I’ve not even made it to many of the FP meetups lately either. for shame 😞

Yeah they’re all about strong typing there. It’s all haskell talks.

I used to like strong typing a lot more than I do now, but I’ve only been writing Clojure full time for ~6 months.

@talios: you’ve been doing it longer?

I haven’t actually touched any clojure (directly) in a few years, lately its when I push out a maintenance release of the clojure-maven-plugin or clojure-osgi wrapper.

I like haskell, but that’s a hard sell - for the JVM I really want to see Frege gain more traction ( which it seems to be, even amongst some clojure folk ).

So Clojure isn’t pervasive at SMX then? I haven’t really looked at Frege at all. I’m just generally a lot more skeptical of static typing than I used to be. I really like prismatic schema, and that seems like enough typing for me - I don’t really enjoy playing jigsaw puzzles with the compiler before it’ll run my code.

the front end web guys are moving to ClojureScript and a large backend service/cassandra db service is all clojure. The main app is still OSGi/Java/Hibernate - the infrastructure on that isn’t very conducive for clojure, but I suspect we’ll start moving bits of it around in due time.

@talios that’s what you said last year too :simple_smile:

shurrup :simple_smile:

@talios: any specific part of that infrastructure that is painful, or is it just a whole bunch of little things that together make it arduous?

@lfn3: I’d say the hibernate side of things ( database persistence ) coupled with the JTA transaction model currently used. The other would be the REST API model we currently use which is very much instance orientated, OSGi also likes its instances of services. Each of those things on their own are probably not so insurmountable, but more the combination. OSGi I think would also favour AOTing clojure as it likes to know what classes are used/imported/exported but that to can be worked around ( will be interesting to see how clojure + jigsaw modules operate )

( which is something I’m hoping to try look at for a JUG presentation I’m supposed to be writing )

Part of it also might just be a lack of interest on my part for trying - changing languages for an existing project is not something I think should just be done “just because its hip” - as it usually involves more than just the language alone but build tooling, editor tooling, testing etc.

I should organise another interview with Ambrose at some point and discuss the current state of typed-clojure.

Yeah I’m interested to see what happens with jigsaw as well. I haven’t read enough to know how (or if) it can be manipulated at runtime.

Not really at run time - but you can start new “layers” of modules over overrides. Which is what app-containers would do. So you’d be able to say “this new layer has a different version of log4j, and this app-specific modules” but everything else resolves from the parent layer

Hopefully I’ll play with the Java 9 builds with local type inferencing tonight when I get home. That, plus lambdas and jigsaw would actually make Java9 quite compelling, esp. when coupled with Javaslang as a functional library

Yeah I read about that a couple of days ago. I’m pretty attached to my ()’s, personally.

Anyway, maybe I’ll see you at JVM meetup next week?

lfn3: given I’m an organiser and supposedly presentering - yep :simple_smile:

oh good - Richard never listed me as presenting which is all good - a reprieve :simple_smile: Which is handy as I’ve a gig to shoot this week

ah bugger - I just saw that Richard put it on the Tuesday - I’m double booked guesting on NZ Tech Podcast 😞

lol maybe not then. Who are you shooting?

Epica at The Studio.

still need final confirmation of the pass tho