Clojurians Log v2

Morning

Mornin'

We finally have blue sky here and could open the windows again! How's the weather over there?

27C here yesterday, and quite warm the two days before

Today's forecast is for 23C, then cooler tomorrow

We had a run of days where it was 39 C 😞 Then the sky turned orange, then it turned grey and the air quality index has been 200 (unhealthy) for a week.

I'm certainly missing UK weather (or any European weather) right now...

Are you near any fires/rioting/...?

The biggest fire got within about 20 miles of us. There's no rioting in California. There's very little actual "rioting" anywhere in the US but the media sure loves anything it can portray as a "riot" 😞

Good Morning!

@folcon I'm not sure what webpack version I'm on, I haven't upgraded though

But yeah, if there's updates going on right now, it's JavaScript so turmoil

Morning

morning

@folcon are you on shadow? that had the best npm interop story that i've used

Morning

måning

@folcon I was initially a little skeptical of shadow-cljs, and perhaps still am, but there’s no denying it works well in practice and is a pragmatic choice for many reasons. thheller is also a superb and very responsive maintainer.

I also love shadow, took some time to understand how to use it, but it's a much better build tool than webpack (although this says more about webpack than shadow, shadow is actually better than most js build tools I ever used and I used professional about a dozen at least)

Morning folks. Is there a method you can override to configure which fields from of a value (whose type is defined by deftype) is printed by pprint?

@cddr print-method iirc

I think that affects core printing functions like prn and print but not pprint which continues to print everything

oh, duh! i didn't read correctly... pprint

Figured out that the method to override is http://clojure.pr/simple-dispatch

i ended up driving shadow with gulp, because the build part of shadow is quite simple, but despite that the repl tooling, npm and node support and per-ns js-output-size-contribution reports made for an outstanding experience

@rickmoynihan I did tinker with shadow for a little bit while I was working with fulco, but there were still some issues at that point. I believe it's gotten better, but I've not got a new project lying around at the moment to try it again... So at some point I'll kick those tires again 😃...

Also Morn'

😃

@folcon I'm on webpack4 still, just checked. I think we rely on those shims too, so I'll probably hold off updating 😄

Frankly, the js world is a mess, and by using npm we get to be part of that mess a little. I think it's really just inevitable. There's an army of webpack devs out there.

I only updated to 5 because when I was chatting with bhauman about setting up figwheel main, that's specifically the version he suggested...

It's not too fiddly, but it's irritating at the moment as you can't tell when it's breaking for you...

You definitely also get issues in shadow-cljs too, to do with transitive npm dependencies and how cljs projects include them… I had one today infact, which was resolved by updating shadow-cljs.

Not sure how to go about improving the status quo here? Is it just better detection / messaging?

Burn the node world to the ground and start over

It requires a change in culture I think

Not everything can be solved by sufficient application of fire, but you might be right about npm...

tbh npm isn't that bad

I'm speaking a little tongue in cheek, but it does sit on many real hours of head against desk...

i've not had much, if any, head-meets-desk from npm - and our build setup is (i think) quite involved - so there must be some way or ways of avoiding it, i seem to have happened upon it by accident, so, sadly, i can't tell you what that way is

i have had 10x more issues with lein on jvm than i've ever had with npm (either js, ts or cljs)

and maybe that's cos i'm not a Java Guy™ so i don't know the right animals to sacrifice at which equinox

but npm has been a lot more foolproof for me

When I mess around with the javascript ecosystem (which happens!) I use yarn not npm

npm (and i suspect yarn) has a way of avoiding jar-hell, which mvn/jvm doesn't - that's certainly made life easier

ah, yarn uses npm packages, so it has the same way of avoiding jar-hell as npm!

Npm is fine. Node culture is what's painful.

Constant improvement. Constant breakage.