Clojurians Log v2

By any chance is anyone getting this error? Am quite certain this is the email that I bought the tickets with o:

This is an access protected space on Gather.
The email address you are signed in with, <mailto:zackteo@gmail.com|zackteo@gmail.com>, is not on the guest list for this space. If this is not the right email, sign out here:
If you believe you are receiving this message in error, check for typos, or reach out to the event's help contact at the event administrator.

Doors are not open yet.

Another two hours, right?

Right okay! Thanks! Was worried that my email might have been missed out from registering a bit late

Right! 😱 I mean: Right! Insert-cool-guy-emoji-here

I also got that when I tried the link yesterday and also started to worry. Weird message. The doors are not open yet would have made more sense. 😃

Indeed! Maybe it is an implementation detail - that they do not have a separate feature to detect if the doors are not open yet :thinking_face:

if you haven’t tried gather.town before, I can recommend setting up a space om gather.town to experiment and learn a bit about it as a way to pass time. Also, my experience using Safari is that it doesn’t really work. Chrome is the best bet.

Works great in the new Edge browser too (based on Chromium), even on Mac 🙂

The gather.town doors are open already o:

Am honestly still finding the whole concept a tat bit strange hahaha

gather.town is still the best of all the bad options to do an online conference, IMHO.

I’m still waiting for the “magic link” to join… 😞

Spam Folder?

Nope.

same here 😕

makes me wonder if email is getting stuck between gather.town and http://office.com somewhere

I’ve requested the link a few times — nothing so far.

@ramart Given this is tied to an email address, can you switch an attendee to a different email address to try signing in?

About Magic Links Another guest had the same issue and solved it by using "Google Login" instead. :man-shrugging:

Sure, IF they signed up with a Google email!

There is no possibility of using “Google Login” with the email I signed up as.

If you edit your name in gather.town and add your slack handle after your real name, we have an easier chance recognizing each other. Like so:

it let me in with Google Login although it says I’m not on the guest list

Really? So we could join with any arbitrary Google account?? 👀

no

Nope. @meszaros.jns That only works if you signed up with a Google account in the first place.

Alright, I’ll wait for my magic link patently then 😄

Not impressed so far since I can’t even sign in 😞

I'm not able to login, neither through magic link nor with google signin

same here

gather.town says my email is not on the guest list, though it is exactly the same email the order confirmation was sent to

@martinklepsch @wichtrup can you help?

Has it started? I just see a video with quotes flying. 😃

Yeap that's all i see too

Actually they stopped fying, but anyway.

I pinged @ramart and he updated my email address to something Google Login recognized.

Starting any moment now

please give is another 10min as we resolve technical issues

Likewise!

<mailto:carnun@commsor.com|carnun@commsor.com>

<mailto:dieter@nextjournal.com|dieter@nextjournal.com>

This is definitely an “interesting” experience 🙂

The talks just started 🙂

Thanks for resolving, looks good to me now ❤️

Is there a way to mute the chat bell?

@mroerni: Click on your name at the bottom of the screen and select Quiet Mode

Already did that.

hmm.. seems to work for me

I can hear chatter in the background

and the sound of the talk is echoing through another mic

Are you in quiet mode?

for me the sound of the talk + the video is jittery and constantly stopping / starting

makes it hard to follow along

Preferences: SFX volume to disable the bings and dings

Yeah… No it stopped. I changed nothing. 😄

Hey @ramart, still no joy. :((

Aaand it's back

thanks, quiet mode seems to help

I watch the stream on YouTube directly (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kihs1cE1uUo) and I muted the gather.town tab.

what an excellent idea. Thank you @mroerni

@mroerni where did you get this link? :)

Browser Devtools. The stream is just an iframe.

haha, great hack

Questions for Peter Strömberg (please add to thread)

please add your questions here 🙂

Is the Calva debugger based on the CIDER debugger?

How does calva determine whether it should move pairs (map, binding list) on single values up and down inside a form? Is there a way to add new forms that should work on a pair-basis?

thanks for the questions!

Re: https://clojurians.slack.com/archives/C07GU1E0H/p1622885988065100?thread_ts=1622885265.063700&amp;cid=C07GU1E0H <- do we have something similar in Emacs? I'd love to have this

I keep hearing "ploink" sounds

https://clojurians.slack.com/archives/C07GU1E0H/p1622884918058200

I have put the SFX volume all the way down

Oh, for me the chat notifications started again, too

I am trying "respawn"

same here, trying respawn

didn't help

@borkdude: I've now muted the tab itself, in firefox, which has finally made it stop

but doesn't this mute the video as well?

it does

@borkdude: yup, but I'm watching the video on Youtube (in a separate tab)

ok

Will these talks be uploaded for later viewing?

works now for me, thank you

Questions for Michiel Borkent (@borkdude) (please add to this thread)

Please add your questions for the Q&A after the talk here.

I only get that sound when i am in another tab. If i am in the gather.town tab, it's quiet.

Yes, they will. Especially "later". :)

@borkdude hilarious over the top german language skills 😂

It’s still early morning here (6am) so that’s a lot of bright energy from Michiel to get this session started 🙂 🌅

Now know how @borkdude is so productive: He can write code faster than i can read it 😂

I would still be in a hammock at this point. He’s already up to compiling to native

How do you choose between graalvm+sci and babashka?

Copy from Gather: tell us about the SCI magic... what is happening there?

Now I need to start trying to compile everything I have into native

It could be stressful with the reputation you've gained in the Clojure community - "the batman of the clojure community" etc.. How do you make it stay "for fun", as opposed to letting it transform into a "chore"?

Michiel's sponsor link! https://github.com/sponsors/borkdude

sorry I didn’t get to all the questions!

🙂

@viesti thanks :)

@contact238 thanks! :)

no worries, love using all of your amazing tools 🙂

me too, thanks for the nice work and really like that you have found a way to work on these things 🙂

Questions for Philippa Markovics (please add to this thread)

Please add your questions for Philippa’s talk here 🙂

Maybe I just missed it: How are the commands shown in the bottom bar are chosen if there are more than can be displayed?

Have they seen a difference in usage of features when implementing this?

What are the challenges of designing / programming in a Context and Command style? For example, how are contexts registered and then how are commands displayed based on contexts?

Also, where can we play around with lisp machines to know what they used to be like?

Re: “usage of features” and measurement: how do you do A/B testing on context relevance? i.e., how do you measure what aspects of the context are more important to users?

Thank you @philippmarkovics for this brilliant talk 😄 I'd love to contribute to open-sourcing this command and context style UI / UX builder

Thanks! 🙏

we have a lot of ideas on how to evolve this towards building more complex UI flows with it

i’m @unkai on twitter, feel free to DM me and we can talk about it more!

@philippmarkovics I’m curious about how you evaluate changes to the context-based information you push to users. How do you manage A/B testing, given that interactions are already so context-sensitive?

(and if not A/B testing, how do you figure out what context is the most appropriate?)

tbh, at this point we made decisions based on feedback we got and based on our own usage

we don’t have a strategy to a/b test this but there are a bunch of key metrics that we look at that sometimes also reveal problems

e.g. number of code cells run, etc

so evaluation will be a bit of everything: looking at some of those metrics, listening to user feedback, etc

Questions for Alex Oloo (please add to this thread)

Please add your questions here...

Thanks. Very pragmatic. (this stuff is hard)

Where did he learn to tell a story in this fantastic way? 😃 It’s wonderful to listen.

from @filipematossilva: does datahike+firebase support multiple concurrent writers?

2- what’s the largest db you’ve managed to store using this setup?

3- what’s the throughput like?

👋

I'm not familiar with Firebase, but can you push down queries to Firebase, or does the client need to read data out, deserialise, then do queries in memory, in the data model that Datahike uses?

thanks so much for going over your datahike+firebase setup @alekcz360 😄

It's a pleasure. Glad you enjoyed it 😄

Questions for Nicole Rauch (please add to this thread)

Please add your questions here 🙂

1. What interests me is how she did it with the taxes ? (So the income tax she has to pay when she works. don't you have to pay taxes in the countries where you work?) 2. Or how much did this whole trip cost?

What was the best meal you had?

Since she went to escape home loneliness. Did she meet a lot of people on her trips?

What was the kind of work you did on the trip? How did client deadlines and communication work?

How did you deal with the constantly changing time difference vs your usual work timezone?

From Josh in Gather: For health insurance, can you just add "travel health insurance" to the statutory plans, like TK or AOK?

What did you take away for your life from this trip? Was it worth it, or would you do it differently next time?

Could you imagine doing this again once more but for even longer?

I am still concerned about abroad mobile internet (not SMS or calls). Any insights on that?

From Leah on Gather: q: you said you returned early because of covid, which places did you want to visit but couldnt?

Questions for Martin Kavalar (please add to this thread)

Please your questions here…

Thank you for the many useful answers. Although 20000€ I find actually quite little. Would have expected more now.

My company is 100% remote and some of our staff have moved around the world — and we often don’t even notice until they tell us 🙂

Benefits of remote conferences: I had good time doing a kettlebell exercise while watching the talks

However, not sure how to take a shower during the conf :thinking_face:

Take your phone into the shower (but don’t forget to turn of your camera lol)

Would it be possible to integrate Clerk into a ClojureScript app? Thinking of rendering components and playing with them in a Storybook style environment @mkvlr

(I guess one of the challenges is accessing functions from a regular CLJS build via Clerk/sci)

What about error handling? Syntax error, exceptions and the like...

From @miro in the chat: Can you run this with Spark as you would Jupyter/Clojupter?

Benefits of remote conferences: I am able to attend it at all! Travelling to Europe is non-trivial.

This is a big one for sure

The conference is amazing so far, an example for other online conferences

I'm now cooking dinner 😂

@h0bbit enjoy your dinner 🙂

@wichtrup I also received the socks! https://twitter.com/borkdude/status/1401178633344106496

On the second screen i solved a Java/JPA/equals/hashcode problem that immediately made me remember my Clojure love and its sanity regarding equality relations…

Sure, i am still looking forward to the real physical thing again.

I’m totally enjoying myself!

5 pm CEST we will continue with more awesome speakers and input. Enjoy the sun or have a chat in the virtual...hallway or at the beach 😉

Yeah!

Prod Who is my new band name

Questions for Jordan Miller (please add to the thread)

Just the right place for your questions 🙂

What happens if several predicate functions return true?

Would you say that passing re-frame events around would be an implementation of this system?

If anyone is interested in high level architecture of Omnyway platform - I thoroughly enjoyed Robert Berger's talk on that topic @ re:Clojure last year

We don’t use interleave, but we do use a variant interleave-all 🙂

https://github.com/borkdude/sci/search?q=interleave

https://github.com/worldsingles/commons/blob/master/src/ws/clojure/extensions.clj#L102-L122

I searched my computer for calls of interleave. At first I thought there were surprisingly high number of them, but actually I have a surprisingly high number of checkouts of the Clojure repo :thinking-face:

Hold z to dance in Gather.Town btw

interesting that they mostly use repeat, suggesting maybe interpose would work instead

or interpose won't work because you need matching pairs

Love that discussion 😂 😍

If Gather Town supported scripting interleave would maybe be useful for squaredancing or some such. 😃

Questions for Bozhidar Batsov (add your questions to this thread)

Your place for questions 🙂

Tim at Gather: So, cider for .net confirmed?

Do you think using windows drove you towards working on a different set of problems than you would have chosen otherwise?

Bozhidar on Gather: > Is your wife known as Lady Bug? Going forward - she will be! :D

When you get a well designed PR that adds a lot of value. It can be hard to start with No. How do you handle that?

Thanks for showing up everyone! I’m signing off to spend some time with family but it’s been an absolute delight to see everyone! 🙌:smiling_face_with_3_hearts:

@bozhidar: It's amazing to hear you talk like this about Cider. 🙇 Cider is an amazing project, but this talk was inspiring in how you analysed your own project and did not hold back the punches. Thanks for putting this in words. We all understand this "adding more features" problem deep down, but it's so hard to see this happen in your own work and own up to it afterwards.

Thanks for all the great questions and the conversations we got to have with the speakers that way. Really enjoyed it ☺️

I really want to try and stay for the last ones but, same, we have a little one to feed and put to bed

Waiting for your questions! 🙂

Have you considered full rewrite as v2 or new plugin as a way to chop off extra complexity?

More seriously, where is CLR support for nrepl/cider at these days?

Thanks for having me today! It was a great great pleasure! :man-bowing: :lambdalove: :cider:

One has to be honest with themselves if they want to make progress and move forward.

Am going to be signing off too - Have had a really enjoyable time 😄 but sleep calls - seems like my body isn't really able to push too far beyond my normal bedtime 😅

That talk was crazingly relevant for me, @bozhidar.

Thanks for joining!

Questions for Paula Gearon (add to this thread)

Please add your questions here 🙂

@quoll curious if the choice of using a protocol for implementing a queue (as opposed to a set of functions, for instance) for API aesthetics, performance, pedagogy, or some other reason?

In the asami example: What are the ticks (') at the end of the properties for? Does it mean "update" instead of "insert"?

Question to Paula: How does Asami primarily differ from Crux? (from Henrik)

from Hernik MohrQuestion to Paula: How does Asami primarily differ from Crux?

Thanks for the answer Paula! :thumbsup::skin-tone-4: Pretty cool work, will look a bit more at Asami.

@quoll awesome talk Paula! 👏:skin-tone-4:

Thank you 🙂

there's actually a twitter account that only follows people named Alex Miller (100s)

@quoll Thanks for talk! During the Q/A I started looking into graal compilation with native-image of asami, will follow up with some comments and PRs

https://github.com/BrunoBonacci/graalvm-clojure/issues/29

I’m finding a few instances of reflection in the durable storage code, so I’m working on those

indeed

May the source be with you!

Questions for Alex Miller (please add to this thread)

Yes, exactly here.

From Gavin: is there a lein -> deps translation guide to boostrap old lein dogs like myself

1. Difference to boot 2. How hard was it to develop: What was "the beast of an obstacle"?

How does tool installation work? Does it update ~/.clojure/deps.edn?

When will it be available?

Any thoughts on caching with tools.build (e.g. make), or is that a user space concern?

From Jordan: how are you hoping this impacts the dialy workflow of the normal working clojure dev? *daily

@dominicm caching what exactly?

like intermediate files?

@alexmiller Yeah, intermediate files. make only rebuilds what has changed.

Thanks for this installation of clojureD! Wonderful.

yeah, we haven't done anything explicitly with that, but there are a lot of options with how you structure your build

for example, if you compile, and you have the previously compiled classes on your classpath, you can get partial builds like that. we may decide to do more in this area

Yeah, I almost said AOT, then remembered you've already been working on that. I suppose this work ties in quite nicely with AOT'ing your libraries for faster dev startup.

that's really to some degree an orthogonal concern, but there is definitely overlap in mechanism (can use tools.build to do the compile etc)

Great conference! Thank you to all the organizers (and speakers)! Great to meet some of y’all in “real time” even if it wasn’t in “real life”. It’s now breakfast time here in California (11 am Saturday morning) and I’m hungry 🙂

might be worth updating that startup time guide once it's out

I was also thinking about the :prep-lib work. A "universal" prep lib of some kind to perform AOT for libraries and cache the AOT across projects, etc.

so we have spent a lot of time thinking about that. it's tricky :)

Thank you organizers and speakers. This was a great conference! Loved gather.town as a nice way to interact with each other. I wish we'd had some more time for gather conversations and discussions. Gnite all (11:30 pm Saturday night, Pune, India)

will it be possible to do overrides of deps for prep-lib stuff?

so this is hard for all the same reasons its always hard - if you're compiling a library, what version of Clojure compiler are you using? Java version? dependency versions? if you're doing this one place and caching it, it's probably wrong for some of the consumers of the library in some of the projects and then you're really building a different environment then you are declaring in the final application(s)

it's the same problem with aot'ing library jars, just not in jars

@hiredman you're running an alias the project declares as how to prep - that alias can do whatever for deps

I am just thinking, if everything is using tools.build to compile things and whatever, and @dominicm had a great scheme for caching things, it seems like it would be a shame if he couldn't make transient dependencies (with a prep-lib) also do the caching (maybe by forcing them to use a custom version of tools.build)

you can still use the approach laid out in https://clojure.org/guides/dev_startup_time

and that's contextual to a project so there are no issues with conflicting versions

not saying this is the final answer here, but everything being added is compatible with the already available approach

we've looked at ways to integrate automated caching into Clojure CLI and even into the compiler itself. we've not yet found something that we liked enough to move forward on

Alex, are your slides available anywhere? I'd love to go through them once more

@seancorfield wow, what a time difference - respect that you made it through

Awesome conf, thanks all

Thank you everybody! ❤️ Have to tidy up a bit and leave the Berlin Studio now, but hope to meet some of you for little chat soon. 🙏 Cheers! 🍻

Thanks Sandra for everything. Liked your dress!

hihi Thank you! Really Second - hand.

Don’t be too modest… I really liked it too 🙂