Clojurians Log v2

@seancorfield With your admin powers could you give us a list of the most popular rooms?

@martinklepsch Define popular, by number of users or messages?

or activity

activity I'd say

Unfortunately because we don’t pay we don’t get access to many statistics, but will see what I can get

Although I realise I’m not Sean lol

@gjnoonan I'm ok with you not being Sean 😛

I can tell you, off the top of my head, that we produce 10-12K messages per week across the whole Slack.

Oh, it was even higher this week: just over 13K.

Unfortunately can’t see on a channel level, it may be worth having a word with the guy who runs the log bot, and do some analysis

And we uploaded 110 files.

992,000 messages total since we started 🙂

922K messages in total 😸

ah yes, touche

2.4G file storage (just over 5,000 files).

@plexus ^^

We don't get per-channel stats tho' so analyzing log bot output is a great idea. I hadn't thought of that!

Glad to see the discussions in here still going strong in my absence

https://github.com/moovel/teamchatviz

I like watching you two going back and forth at how awesome this community is.

the log data is on Github (private), I can invite whoever wants to pull some stats from them

@plexus Would love access please 🙂

I know that Matrix was mentioned here but this just popped up in my newsfeeds and I thought it might be apropos: https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/19/riot-wants-to-be-like-slack-but-with-the-flexibility-of-an-underlying-open-source-platform/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+(TechCrunch)

That TechCrunch article kinda sucks ...

I just scanned it; not endorsing it.

@akiva yeah, didn't mean to say you did just wanted to say that I didn't like it 😛

Hah! Sorry, yeah, that sounded a bit defensive on my part. D’oh!

nah, all good.

There are a few Clojure rooms on Riot/Matrix btw, in case anyone wants to join

I should.

http://d3981087m4idf6.cloudfront.net/

Here's a WIP index of them which might also serve as "Matrix Directory Server" later

but search also totally does the job 🙂

I’ll have a look. I’m kind of pro-IRC in a post-Slack world and that’s only because I can just do it from Emacs.

Uh oh. CloudFront attempted to establish a connection with the origin, but either the attempt failed or the origin closed the connection.

@akiva — @plexus just connected to Matrix using emacs yesterday I think

Also there are Matrix<>IRC bridges (which you can use as kinda-bouncers today)

If @plexus knows how to do that, that’d be good. In my experience, IRC bridges are kinda crappy.

At the very least many seconds delayed.

https://riot.im/app/#/room/#freenode_#clojure:matrix.org

check this one, I find it pretty acceptable

There's a matrix client on melpa, very straightforward

Oh, excellent.

client could be improved but it's totally usable

@akiva any chance you tried to acces the cloudfront thing with https?

Might give me an excuse to write a Spacemacs layer around it.

that could break it right now

Yeah, that’s what’s happening. Vivaldi (or maybe the server) is forcing HTTPS on it.

Actually, it’s the HTTPS Everywhere extension. Forgot I had that.

Yeah, will get that fixed eventually but not a priority yet 😄

Heard. Makes me wish HTTPS Everywhere had a whitelist but it seems binary.

Oh wait, nope. Got this.

😄

Playing with riot now. Seems nice from first view

@emperorcezar there are a few clojure rooms, search for them in the directory if you like

@martinklepsch Yup. Jumped into one first thing

@emperorcezar yeah so that is actually the IRC bridge and not a "Matrix room"

@martinklepsch Interesting. So it does both. Does it hold history for the IRC bridge rooms?

yes

@emperorcezar I believe it's even searchable, you should totally try that

@martinklepsch Looks like it keeps history since the user joined. Which is good enough for me.

Yo channel, I think Sandstorm is the way to go. It’s awesome, open-source (free) and self-hostable (only cost). https://sandstorm.io/

@seancorfield

Hacker News post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12104361

@keatondunsford And which company is going to pay to host it?

Self-hosting is not generally an acceptable answer since if whichever company hosts it moves on from Clojure or goes out of business, we’re back to square one.

We could all just crowdsource to chip in. It’s just deploying on Digital Ocean or AWS.

No, that is not an acceptable answer either.

there was an internet rant about software community resource management a month ago or something

Better than paying $500,000 to Slack every year for a premium plan hahah. https://medium.freecodecamp.com/so-yeah-we-tried-slack-and-we-deeply-regretted-it-391bcc714c81

Someone still has to manage the actual payment / accounting behind all of that and we can’t have the community beholden to a single person for that.

And we don’t pay Slack anything.

I know.

But the free plan has a cap, which I’m assuming is why we’re all talking about this.

No, we’re talking about it because Slack has apparently shutdown invites for very large communities in the past.

That’s what I mean.

Sandstorm might take Bitcoin for payment. We could create a multi-sig wallet and leave control in a number of the community members we trust (if one leaves Clojure, no problem, members can just vote to transfer funds to a new wallet with a new signer).

For their own self-hosting plans, called Oasis.

Hahaha… Bitcoin… 😆

Or boom, this works. v

https://bithost.io/

Lol I’m just trying to be creative so we can make this work. Bitcoin isn’t hard at all.

Having anything that requires community payment or a single, responsible company to cover hosting costs has been pretty much ruled out in the discussions that happened eight or nine months ago.

does that leave only free hosted options from existing organizations like slack & freenode?

or is there some logical 4th choice I'm missing?

But, here we are, most of a year later, so if someone wants to try to crowdfund it, set up the service, set up the fund, and see how it goes...

Just suggesting something isn’t really sufficient. That’s why all the suggested Slack-replacements haven’t actually gone anywhere. Only a couple of them have ever seen any actual work from community members.

maybe a $2500 endowment could run a paid hosted thing in perpetuity

Totally get the concerns, but I think clearly our options are seriously limited if we don’t figure something out. Multi-sig wallets solve this problem. I would be shocked if there wouldn’t be twenty people in here willing to pitch in $5 / month to help support the community.

I’d have no problem trying to get a Proof of Concept up and running.

Sorry, as I indicated the other day (to domincm), I’m frustrated that we’re rehashing the same stuff that was hashed out at length ages ago and we’re not much further along… I should probably just resist commenting (which is a lot easier if folks don’t @-mention me 😈 ).

I get it. No worries.

I’m not leading this. I’m not even invested in it. I’m purely here as one of the community moderators to try to make sure discussions don’t get heated (they got very heated when this channel first got started).

I’ll work on something, and hope it doesn’t suck.

Seriously tho’ folks, don’t @-me or I’ll be all grumpy and rain on your parade 🙂

there's been a lot of progress on the #braid-chat front since January (the last time this conversation really picked up); I'm cleaning up the docs and site and will be recording a video to give you all a better idea of where things are at

I'm also exploring a matrix bridge

look forward to the video @rafd

@keatondunsford, it’s a huge risk to take. Even if we were to come together as a huge Woodstock and develop a Clojure solution in peace and harmony, someone’s going to have to take the responsibility of owning the server and with the amount of traffic we generate here, even the most bare bones DigitalOcean server would be far more than people people are willing to pay. Beyond that, accepting payment can itself be a nightmare task. How do you track it; what do you do when a card expires; what do you do when someone decides to stop paying because they’ve moved on to working at Panera; and, worse, what do you do when the people who are willing to pay no longer are sending enough to maintain the server. Refunds?

Wow that was a lot of text.

Hah.

The further this thing creeps along, the more I’m just fine with everyone going to Gitter or IRC or blogging or some combination thereof.

Maybe a bigger presence on SO?

Yeah I get all the concerns. I’m just an optimist I guess haha. Joining together and singing Kumbaya sounds fun lmao.

Hah, yeah, me too. I’m the most pessimistic optimist you’ll likely ever meet and I was one of the ones who decided to leave the channel after things got a little bit out-of-hand before. I’m still a supporter, of course, but I think my cynicism is starting to creep in.