Clojurians Log v2

> I know JVM does not mix with Docker @nathantech2005 How do you mean?

@nathantech2005, coincidentally the 20.3.0 webcast does spend some time talking about docker, you might want to watch: https://youtu.be/qH9C3kLbk9o

@zane, I can only assume @nathantech2005 is talking about slower startup times with JVM apps. Is that what you mean @nathantech2005?

That would have been my guess, but I wanted to be sure!

The issue of running the JVM on Docker has long been solved. We run hundreds of containers in docker swarms, with a mix of Java 8 and Java 11 and we have no issues since the improvements on the JVM detecting that it's running within a container.

Same. Slow starts are also no issue since container orchestration does 0-downtime deployments and waits for new instances to start, before shutting down older ones.

well… that is part of it… JVM takes too long to load inside docker… and then @borkdude was explaining there is a throughput vs performance/memory trade off

you know, I need to clarify what throughput means in my own head… I always think of when the data centers will throttle your speeds… as throughput… but then there is also the bandwidth portion… throughput is really speed x bandwidth = volume… 2 dimensions

e.g. speed of fiber optics vs copper

wow, seiously, cutting edge… swarms? what is that?

so you are saying start time is really moot, when you have 100s of containers, scaling up and down, ahead of time

I wonder why they made such a big deal out of just a few containers taking time to startup… when it becomes moot…. when there’s plenty of standby containers ready to take the load

Because it is really painful if you're running a single instance of something. Which never should be the case and you always need 2 of everything for resiliency

We run our clojure apps in production in AWS, no problems. Though we'll move to podman eventually

ya, no idea why that docker presentation made such a big deal out of … JVM vs Docker

the only serious problems I ever ran into Docker, when on Virtual Box, OSX… was file management… files not syncing properly

for local dev setup

There's no need to use virtualbox anymore. I haven't had a problem with shared folders on macOS for a very long time. Can't speak to Windows though

@tvaughan oh, I thought that the file sync was busted on the mac - so I can edit files locally and have changes reflected in the container when using file watchers etc?

Yup

Now I want to know when did they fix that :-)

I'll give it a go again and see how it works in our setup

The file system change event notifications didn't propagate, so you had to use a polling watcher. Wasn't terrible, but it was acceptable. I don't remember when things just worked 🙂

yea, file sync was busted on OSX, but that was on Virtual Box…. they changed to a new Mac OS VM… no more Virtual Box

it was a real bummer about 1.5 years ago… could not use Docker for a local dev setup… and I had been using Vagrant with Salt Stack before

@tvaughan how on earth did you manage to even fix that… with a polling watcher? You did that yourself?

did you hack Docker? hahahahaha

I set a configuration flag in the tools I used, or selected a polling watcher, like modd

shadow-cljs has such a flag, for example

so there is mods for Docker?

you know… that might be a really good answer to the “what’s the biggest tech problem you solved lately?” question

https://github.com/cortesi/modd

ok, that’s super cool.. you know what else that’s good for… watching for file changes, to hack stuff

https://github.com/thheller/shadow-cljs/issues/210#issuecomment-369321518

last time I used a file monitor, was to watch dll files changing… and grab the passwords

ahh ok, yea, windows… crap… well, I am going to try it again, for Win/Linux/OSX… team of 10

I can’t evangelize everyone to Linux

Last time I had to use Windows was pre WSL and things mostly worked. I suspect things are much better now with WSL

So Windows is still using Virtual Box for Docker?

No, Hyper-V

ok, so with WSL…. my team can run Docker on Linux, inside their Windows?

dang, I would have thought Hyper-V would work awesome… I think that’s VMWare? right?

Hyper-V under neath VMWare?

Hyper-V is native to Windows

ok, maybe different. the terms get confusing… VMWare uses Hyper Visor

I wouldn't use WSL to run the docker deamon. I would use Docker Desktop. But WSL should be the best bet for running the client

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualization/

ok, I am going to give it a try… honestly though. VMWare was the best ever for this stuff

because I had the freedom to totally screw up the system… and restore it with backups

Same with docker/podman. Push images to a registry. Start over with docker system prune

I wish there was a way to push volumes to some kind of a registry too

like an off site registry, repo? so you can pull them down anywhere?

oh, you mean, just the volumes? include the entire drive, data, everything?

not just the docker config

I would just be very careful… because if you mean the app… and there’s security keys, you don’t want that getting exposed

I woke up to a $25k bill from Amazon, one morning

There's not much in the way of configuration. A Dockerfile and everything else would be in a git repo, I assume. If you care about saving the docker images, those can be pushed to a registry. A volume is just data that's shared with a running container. A volume persists after the container has stopped.

It’s not that I am finding this conversation uninteresting, but maybe it isn’t about GraalVM? There is a neglected #docker channel.

well, I am interested… how would pushing the volumes up to a repo… help you?

ahh sorry, let’s move it

Fair point @lee

No problemo!

#docker

@tvaughan join me there #docker I want to here this idea