Clojurians Log v2

@hiskennyness all very interesting. ive personally been refreshed the last year working in a bigger community (R), which i imagine is kind of similar to JS world in that individual programming experience approaches zero since the community is growing so fast

and so there are plenty of opportunities to foist weird ideas 😬

@thedavidmeister And now all the React+Redux people have to switch to Relay/GraphQL. What happened to “we do not tell you how to manage state”? I am also hearing interesting noises about not allowing business logic on the client. Is Facebook about to discover Rails? btw, server-side everything is how I got started in web programming, with Common Lisp driving qooxdoo. There’s nothing new under the sun.

hmmm

i'm looking at less server >.<

i'm just contrary

i guess in a sense the whole SPA thing is an efficiency hack... reduce latency by reducing server/client interaction to business-level protocol

hmm

i feel like server is a hack

because our "web" doesn't have a good p2p model yet

seems like the applicability of p2p depends on the type of app

maybe?

like in amazon's case... there's really only one source of truth about how many copies of a book they have in the warehouse

Ah, but as we data flowers know, the point sensitivity lets us minimize round trips. But yeah, no round trips has an edge.

I think “business logic on the client” is just another hogoblin to scare the kiddies, myself. The app is gonna go somewhere, and wherever it goes I control the code.

but why does amazon need a server with business logic to store data about the number of books they have?

i guess there is a category of things you cant do without building state javascript. like autocomplete. and so it would require changes to the browser model to remove all js/state from the client

“Minimize” is the wrong word. We get more roundtrips but with tiny payloads.

totally

there's things that you need "client" for

@thedavidmeister because only they know when books have been shipped, and shipping is transactional

the list of things you need "server" for gets a little shorter every year

that's just auth logic though

and yes, i agree that currently auth is something servers are still needed for

i can imagine an applicaiton-level http reverse proxy tracking sessions and sending structural diffs at the http level, with some kind of browser support

and all the session state is in a server-side db, with something like lambda functions doing the logic

i can imagine FB et al wanting to do this to be able to ship very minimal clients. so they don't need to worry as much about updating apps

not that this would be good for every app tho. since supporting the idea requires buy-in across every level

vs. the current spa situation which is, we need an http server that can send and receive json

this is something being worked on though

did you see my article on holochain?

they're looking at spas that are less server-y

i imagine things like webassembly will bring new stuff too

waves hands

if your SPA framework has to retreat to the server to get shit done, that's not the best sign 😕

oh, i'm not saying we should do like they're doing lol

just that the economies of FB and goog are weird and inscrutable. but if i try hard i feel like i can imagine why they would be doing things

haha yeah

webcomponents btw

so weird

they still claim they're the future but the spec has been in turmoil for many years now

honestly i'm pretty happy

i have an abstraction for the DOM that looks like HTML

the turmoil stresses me out

yeah what we have was and is still really good i think

not stressin' either 😄

FOMO

i learned this recently, it's the term lol

am i supposed to be learning a new framework or programming paradigm right now

oh yes i know all about FOMO haha

i'm too old to be relearning basic HTML every year 😞

but i get FOMO for other things for sure

I think I have proven that they can shut down the Web components initiative. That was looking a tad scary/convoluted. Just Write Functions(tm)!

... and in the cell graph, bind them