jobs-discuss

Job hunting, interview process and anything related to the experience of a job writing the Clojure language.
sveri 2019-06-18T06:48:02.186300Z

Which is something Rich also said in one of his talks, to think about the disadvantages of a tool.

vemv 2019-06-18T06:52:07.186500Z

> JVM? lein? error messages? debugging? profiling? (edited) what are you even saying here? Verbs are missing > But syntax and verbosity is is what? > just after a few years of coding Clojure / CloureScript I started to see not only rainbows and butterflies Who said this?

kwladyka 2019-06-18T11:45:00.186900Z

> But syntax and verbosity is Oh it cut my words…. I don’t remember what I wanted to say 😄

kwladyka 2019-06-18T11:45:20.187100Z

> Who said this? me

kwladyka 2019-06-18T11:45:59.187300Z

> what are you even saying here? Verbs are missing I am pointing things which are not simpler in any way

kwladyka 2019-06-18T11:46:10.187500Z

comparing to other languages

kwladyka 2019-06-18T11:46:29.187700Z

But the huge advantages of Clojure is simple verbosity

kwladyka 2019-06-18T11:46:52.187900Z

Personally I feel when talking about Clojure decrease complexity we can talk only about this verbosity

kwladyka 2019-06-18T11:47:03.188100Z

Unless you see something else what I miss?

kwladyka 2019-06-18T11:47:45.188300Z

But I don’t feel using tools around are simpler, only this verbosity.

kwladyka 2019-06-18T11:48:58.188500Z

So when I see people repeating blindly Clojure is solution for complexity I would like to know how they get this idea 🙂

kwladyka 2019-06-18T11:55:37.189200Z

If they can point what Clojure really make simpler

kwladyka 2019-06-18T11:56:27.189400Z

It is just a syntax and tools around, not Holly Grail 🙂

kwladyka 2019-06-18T11:57:17.189600Z

Comparing ClojureScript complexity is even more interesting

kwladyka 2019-06-18T11:59:21.189800Z

But please don’t see it offensive. It is just my opinion after time of huge excitement and see it as salvation 🙂

2019-06-18T18:48:46.194300Z

Hi all, I’m looking for some advice here. I’m a new grad and would love to get a job doing functional programming. After trying out some functional programming and building a lisp in school (Racket), I like how much less cognitive load there is programming in Racket and Clojure. So far, I’ve done a compiler (written in Racket) and trying out some Clojure (went through the Brave Clojure), so I wouldn’t say anything significant. But I have the heart and work ethics to learn. tldr: Do you guys have any advice for new grads trying to break into a junior functional programming role?

alexlynham 2019-06-19T10:15:47.195300Z

…but that is uncommon. the state of clj survey showed that clj is overwhelmingly engineers that have been at it a while

seancorfield 2019-06-19T15:17:47.195600Z

As an SF Bay Area resident, I’ll caution that it is stupidly expensive to live here. Where are you currently @franklai?

2019-06-19T15:38:20.195900Z

@alex.lynham I read that as well

2019-06-19T15:42:46.196100Z

@seancorfield Currently in Toronto. Yes, I’m hoping the salary difference could make up for it, but at this point in my career, really hoping to learn as much as I can. Anecdotally, I feel there’s a lot more engineers with interesting experiences in the Bay than other places (e.g. experiences with different programming paradigms), perhaps it’s because there’s a lot of more engineers in the Bay area

seancorfield 2019-06-19T16:01:23.196300Z

I would also say, unless you are young and single, stay away from early stage start ups. They can sound enticing but you will have no life outside at work at most of them and no job stability (most startups implode fairly spectacularly and without notice).

seancorfield 2019-06-19T16:01:54.196500Z

I loathe the "brogrammer" culture that is endemic in most Silicon Valley startups.

agigao 2019-06-19T16:11:45.196700Z

Perhaps Clojure landscape in Toronto isn’t too scarce to start looking outside, especially at the Bay Area.

2019-06-19T16:14:44.196900Z

@seancorfield I think you’re spot on. I’m single and a lot of them do sound very interesting to me I’ve got to say. The idea of a small and tight team and potential to make big impact in and outside of the company sounds like a dream job to a 2x years old whose friends all left for other cities for jobs. I will try my best to keep my head leveled. In fact, I’m gonna fly to SF for this startup career fair which has a lot early stage startups…

seancorfield 2019-06-19T16:22:44.198400Z

Let me know when you are in town. And remember that almost no startups have any impact on the world 😁

2019-06-19T16:32:26.198600Z

@seancorfield Will do. Yes, I think that’s statistically true haha …

2019-06-19T16:34:22.198800Z

@chokheli Yup, Toronto does seem to have something. But I’m moving for family as well. Plus there seems to be a lot more options for tech workers in the Bay.

trevor 2019-06-19T16:56:15.199Z

@seancorfield I vehemently disagree with most of what you’re saying about startups. You’re painting the culture with awfully big strokes.

seancorfield 2019-06-19T16:59:09.199200Z

@trevor having lived and worked in the Bay Area for twenty years and been around startups quite a bit (either directly or via friends), as well as founding one and having to deal with VCs, I stand by my criticisms.

trevor 2019-06-19T16:59:24.199400Z

Like most things, you’ve got to be aware of the tradeoffs when deciding where and what to work on. Startups by their very nature are high risk. If you’re looking for stability and low risk. I would suggest you look at a more established company

seancorfield 2019-06-19T16:59:44.199600Z

There are some good startups, of course, but overwhelmingly the "startup culture" here is pretty awful.

seancorfield 2019-06-19T17:00:47.199800Z

I'm not criticizing startups for risk -- I just mentioned that as a possible concern to someone considering moving to a different country to get a job.

1👍
trevor 2019-06-19T17:00:59.200Z

In your opinion, the startup culture is pretty awful.

seancorfield 2019-06-19T17:01:12.200200Z

California is an "at will" employment state, so you can be terminated with zero notice even from well established companies.

trevor 2019-06-19T17:05:30.200400Z

@franklai I would suggest you create a list of (employment) priorities of what’s important to you. Location, salary, industry, stability, values, culture, etc. then start your journey from there.

trevor 2019-06-19T17:07:13.200600Z

You may come to realize what you thought was important, really wasn’t.

trevor 2019-06-19T17:10:02.200900Z

@seancorfield re: risk - absolutely, I was also doing the same.

seancorfield 2019-06-19T17:10:46.201100Z

Also, since you're coming from Canada, think about work permit issues and what you may need from a company in that area. I suspect Canada -> America is an easier move than the one I made (from England) but still. Also, as a new US worker/temporary resident, you may run into issues around banking and credit ratings.

seancorfield 2019-06-19T17:12:47.201300Z

When I moved here, I had to start from scratch as far as credit was concerned (despite having excellent credit in England), and several banks refused to let me open an account while I was in that transitional stage before getting my green card (in the end a credit union helped me, where banks would not, and my US girlfriend signed me onto her Wells Fargo bank account as well).

2019-06-19T20:33:39.201500Z

@seancorfield @trevor I will keep these in mind, thanks!

ag 2019-06-18T19:47:05.194500Z

It depends where you live. I think it’s not going to be easy to find a remote-junior dev job.