Clojurians Log v2
jobs-discuss
I wonder why so many companies don't publish compensation information in their job ads
Do they think they might be able to persuade people to take a cut? Not out of the question I guess, but would it make any difference to have that decision in mind up front?
Maybe it's just about retaining freedom to improvise - but that implies available funds, but a desire to pay less if possible, which doesn't speak well of the hiring org...
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@j0ni speaking from the other side, i've done it both ways - ads both with and without salary ranges. generally my reason to leave it out is because i don't want a good person to not start a conversation with me just because the salary looks too low - i want them to evaluate the role based on the other factors, tech stack, product, company, working style etc.
if your're a bigco, or very well funded, and can pay top-dollar then putting salary on the ad makes it look attractive, but if you (like us) can't pay top dollar at the moment then there's no real advantage to putting salary on the ad, it causes you to be compared unfavourably to other companies when the opportunities are really quite different
on the other hand, there's something about the straightforward transparency which is quite appealing, which is why i have also sometimes published salary ranges on ads
I think you might be underestimating people a little there. If someone is only interested in money, then they're not interested in your job either way. If they know there's other qualities they care about, then they'll look for those in the ad.
If you know the minimum you need to live on, and after that everything else is about quality of life, then it's much easier to filter to your minimum and that will hopefully include your job!
Moreover this thing might work the other way around: I was thinking to pay $X, but then one great candidate gets in and since I really want that candidate I'll end up paying $X+Y
you could well be right @dominicm ... our recent ads have all had salary ranges on them, and we've done well with those, so we'll probably continue
one thing that isn't in our rationale, whether or not we publish salaries, is to save money by paying as little as possible in each case - that's only going to cause future resentment
Your strategy could pull in people who think they want to earn lots of money, but actually want to have a nice working environment. I'm not sure what that group looks like though.
uh, which strategy @dominicm?
I shouldn't call it yours perhaps, the strategy of not including a salary because it's low
all our recent ads have had salaries on, so that's not our current strategy... but when we've not put salaries on ads it hasn't particularly lead to any problems - i'd find out about salary sensitivity in the initial phone intro
I agree with @dominicm - it's important to be able to rule out jobs that can't support you. The rationales I've heard for not allowing that to happen seem to be based on some kind of subterfuge - to me that basically means that the employer is ok wasting some people's time on a bet that they can convince someone else to work for less than they need. That seems both ethically dubious and a bit of a self-own - unless you're a non-profit or a mars colonization program, how long do you think you can retain someone who isn't getting paid enough?
I get that some employers consider salary to be private information, but to me that doesn't speak well of their likely culture and practices
traditionally that's how you maintain structural inequalities
To some extent I'm sure that leaving the topic of compensation to the very end allows companies to anchor in a person to the job before considering the salary, thus they may have a better chance selling the job to more candidates. Perhaps more importantly, compensation is often considered private information. Many employees do not want to, directly or indirectly, disclose how much money they are making.
@j0ni speaking from the other side, i've done it both ways - ads both with and without salary ranges. generally my reason to leave it out is because i don't want a good person to not start a conversation with me just because the salary looks too low - i want them to evaluate the role based on the other factors, tech stack, product, company, working style etc.
if your're a bigco, or very well funded, and can pay top-dollar then putting salary on the ad makes it look attractive, but if you (like us) can't pay top dollar at the moment then there's no real advantage to putting salary on the ad, it causes you to be compared unfavourably to other companies when the opportunities are really quite different
on the other hand, there's something about the straightforward transparency which is quite appealing, which is why i have also sometimes published salary ranges on ads
I think you might be underestimating people a little there. If someone is only interested in money, then they're not interested in your job either way. If they know there's other qualities they care about, then they'll look for those in the ad.
If you know the minimum you need to live on, and after that everything else is about quality of life, then it's much easier to filter to your minimum and that will hopefully include your job!
Moreover this thing might work the other way around: I was thinking to pay $X, but then one great candidate gets in and since I really want that candidate I'll end up paying $X+Y
you could well be right @dominicm ... our recent ads have all had salary ranges on them, and we've done well with those, so we'll probably continue
one thing that isn't in our rationale, whether or not we publish salaries, is to save money by paying as little as possible in each case - that's only going to cause future resentment
Your strategy could pull in people who think they want to earn lots of money, but actually want to have a nice working environment. I'm not sure what that group looks like though.
uh, which strategy @dominicm?
I shouldn't call it yours perhaps, the strategy of not including a salary because it's low
all our recent ads have had salaries on, so that's not our current strategy... but when we've not put salaries on ads it hasn't particularly lead to any problems - i'd find out about salary sensitivity in the initial phone intro