jobs-discuss

Job hunting, interview process and anything related to the experience of a job writing the Clojure language.
markgdawson 2020-02-21T15:39:47.030400Z

Hi everyone. It's not an offer of a job, but an open-ended question about the job market. I'm a polyglot programmer, mainly OOP and procedural, who's become hooked on the joy of Clojure development. Can anyone share their experience of moving from a mid-level/senior developer position with only hobby project Clojure experience to a principally-Clojure job? What are the challenges? Is remote work easy to find once you have experience in the field? Is there much work that isn't web-based? Is it competitive? What do you wish someone had told you when you were considering taking the leap? 🙂

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2020-02-22T18:44:57.001100Z

Mm non polyglot companies are quite rare imho

2020-02-22T18:45:51.001300Z

Unless they are new startups that started straight away all in with Clojure, I doubt there are many and they will still probably use python for data related tasks

2020-02-22T18:46:56.001500Z

Any older company most likely has legacy code in half a dozen language that still needs to be maintained

kwladyka 2020-02-22T19:03:38.001700Z

sure, but then they want to have Clojure and Python developers not 2in1. Sure you can know both, but they care about experts.

kwladyka 2020-02-22T19:03:43.001900Z

At least it is my experience

kwladyka 2020-02-22T19:03:56.002100Z

and for sure years of experience in 1 language matter

kwladyka 2020-02-22T19:04:24.002300Z

that is why I stick with Clojure

markgdawson 2020-02-23T21:59:19.003Z

Thanks for your thoughts @kwladyka. I appreciate your comments on expertise, it certainly is valuable. For me, personally, I'm a fan of trying new languages. It's good for the soul? I learnt Clojure for the sake of learning, and it's been a very enriching experience. I'm not debating your comments about employment, they're likely true, but I was a programmer for fun long before I was a programmer for money. 🙂

Darrell 2020-02-21T15:44:11.030700Z

I’m wondering this myself. I’ve recently gotten a taste of Clojure and want to do more with it but I’m not sure what the job market looks like.

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seancorfield 2020-02-21T17:48:20.034200Z

@markgdawson One possibility is to introduce Clojure where you already work (that's how we shifted to Clojure at work). Not all companies will allow that but if you work somewhere that is already polyglot, and already on the JVM, then it might be relatively straightforward to use Clojure on a small but visible project and show folks how well it does.

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2020-02-21T18:08:07.035500Z

that might also backfire, specially if you're the only person who likes/is interested in Clojure

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2020-02-21T18:08:39.036900Z

it is in theory much better to find a place which is already sold on Clojure, but depending on where you live they are not so many

2020-02-21T18:13:54.040300Z

depends where you live probably, but here there are some jobs for example https://jobs.braveclojure.com/

2020-02-21T18:14:08.041Z

and here as well https://functional.works-hub.com/

markgdawson 2020-02-21T18:17:22.045700Z

Thanks @seancorfield, that's an option for sure. Unfortunately, I think that a big ask, as we work on code from outside our control, and the code is a deliverable. Small hobby/internal projects, sure. Something serious, very unlikely unfortunately. But otherwise, I think for many it's sound advice.

markgdawson 2020-02-21T18:19:18.048Z

@andrea.crotti I've already started carefully downplaying my enthusiasm for Clojure for fear of broken record syndrome! I've not been met with too much shared enthusiasm yet. :)

markgdawson 2020-02-21T18:29:54.050700Z

Geographically, I think I'm restricted to remote work realistically. Not a huge amount of tech around here, and certainly no Clojure I'm aware of.

the2bears 2020-02-21T22:10:55.053400Z

@markgdawson here is my story, starting from the point where I have years of Java but am burnt out and frustrated with its concurrency model: • Started programming Clojure in my spare time, chose an existing Java arcade game I wrote to do in Clojure as a personal learning exercise. Fell in love. • Gave a lunch & learn at work, showcasing the Clojure game and showing REPL development. • Used Clojure for internal "quick" stuff. Kept a REPL running. When asked if the "distribution of our IDs is uniform" worked up a quick test, with visual graph, on the spot. • Started interviewing for Clojure roles. Wasn't good enough, but learned more. • Finally landed a Clojure role, took it and left Java behind. • Turned that into my present role and while I don't work exclusively with Clojure, I'm a happier person than before.

markgdawson 2020-02-22T14:06:17.055800Z

Hi @the2bears, thank for sharing the story. I feel like I'm probably still in the "wasn't quite good enough" stage of the journey, but I've picked up a few side projects to sharpen my skills. A lot of it is probably a waiting/learning game for me right now. 🙂

markgdawson 2020-02-22T14:08:46.056Z

How did you find it when you started applying for jobs before you were "good enough". Did you find employers wanted evidence of bigger projects, or was it more a question of being able to demonstrate competence (e.g. technical questions and competence testing)?

the2bears 2020-02-22T17:27:55.000700Z

@markgdawson, it was all the latter. Most of the Clojure positions I applied for had small assignments to complete up front. All had Clojure coding during the interviews.

kwladyka 2020-02-21T23:10:50.053800Z

I think first of all you have to convinced yourself you want to switch and focus on Clojure. You believe in this language. Then you can convince people who will hire you.

kwladyka 2020-02-21T23:11:13.054Z

From my experience companies want to have people who focus and have experience in 1 language

kwladyka 2020-02-21T23:11:20.054200Z

not really polyglot

kwladyka 2020-02-21T23:11:24.054400Z

but this is my experience

kwladyka 2020-02-21T23:12:13.054600Z

from my experience more you specialized, more they will pay you and want you

kwladyka 2020-02-21T23:13:34.054800Z

remote work is cool 😉

kwladyka 2020-02-21T23:13:48.055Z

the easiest for start is you area like EU, US etc.

kwladyka 2020-02-21T23:13:56.055200Z

the most $$$ is US

kwladyka 2020-02-21T23:14:05.055400Z

but the hardest to get