jobs-discuss

Job hunting, interview process and anything related to the experience of a job writing the Clojure language.
Aron 2020-08-13T02:16:42.121Z

Hammock-driven development, as far as I understand it, is explicitly not about writing code in a hammock.

seancorfield 2020-08-13T02:23:18.121300Z

"Thinking-driven development" 🙂

Aron 2020-08-13T02:33:38.124300Z

That has the unfortunate side-effect that some people will ask in return: 'so you are saying I am not thinking for work'? And obviously that's not literally true. :)

jiriknesl 2020-08-13T03:49:18.125700Z

It might be the reason. I must say I don’t have environment that supports deep work (flow) even when I work from home. Until recently, my little sons were at home.

seancorfield 2020-08-13T03:53:20.125900Z

Ah, I've heard that children can disrupt flow 🙂 I only have cats to deal with and they can be very relaxing and therapeutic.

seancorfield 2020-08-13T03:53:47.126100Z

(they can also be destructive monsters too, at times, and a couple of mine can be very demanding...)

Cris B 2020-08-13T04:04:32.128900Z

Is that a side-effect though or the salient point - that the development process often doesn't include the space for proper thinking? I'm pretty sure I've produced a fair bit of code in some jobs with little real thought having gone on (but all too much tool twiddling & text shuffling). Maybe that's just me ...

seancorfield 2020-08-13T04:13:30.130400Z

My wife talks about one of her jobs where she spent literally three months, alone in an office with a whiteboard, designing a system, and then sat down at a computer and built the whole thing in days -- and her boss was like "About time! You spent months sitting around, staring into space and doodling!" 😞

1😢1👀
sveri 2020-08-13T07:32:31.133700Z

I mean, she could have thought of the correct solution at first, spend two hours drawing it and then a few days implementing instead of thinking of all the wrong solutions first /s Seriously, that must be heart breaking, at least I would feel some anger inside of me.

seancorfield 2020-08-13T15:36:48.139600Z

Yeah, she still resents that manager. And it was the last job she ever did -- I said if she didn't enjoy her job, to quit, and I could support us both, and then she could find something she really enjoyed. That was twenty years ago, and then she became a cat show judge (and has traveled all over the world for that job -- until COVID 19).

2👍
Darrell 2020-08-13T16:11:18.141200Z

That manager sounds like one I had. One of my co-workers showed him a solution that was efficient and elegant and worked and the manager replied, “That can’t work. That’s not enough code.”

sveri 2020-08-13T16:37:47.141400Z

It's nice that she found something she truly enjoys. I think we all had managers like this in the past, my wife has a history of that too (she was a chef, a restaurant manager and worked at amazon, all places that are not known for their friendliness). I always told her there are better places and finally, she found an awesome and friendly team in a hardware store which she truly enjoys going to. She also was devatasted by her last job at amazon because of how shitty a few people can be.

seancorfield 2020-08-13T17:32:50.144500Z

It's super important that you enjoy your job or at least your work environment: a toxic work environment can have a really debilitating effect on you.

Darrell 2020-08-13T17:35:46.144700Z

That was my experience with this particular manager. He was so overly critical at everything I and others did that I locked up and really couldn’t be productive at all. I spent all my time second-guessing myself, wondering if what I was doing was going to be pointed out as being wrong by him. I later found out that he was hated by everyone at that company but the people he reported to. It turns out the only thing he is good at is making himself sound invaluable to his managers.

Aron 2020-08-13T06:23:19.133400Z

I agree, but not everyone is prepared to take such criticisms from others, and especially if that other is me 😉

1🤐
sveri 2020-08-13T07:32:31.133700Z

I mean, she could have thought of the correct solution at first, spend two hours drawing it and then a few days implementing instead of thinking of all the wrong solutions first /s Seriously, that must be heart breaking, at least I would feel some anger inside of me.

scknkkrer 2020-08-13T10:24:32.134700Z

Do you guys any tips or tricks to landing on a remote job ? I’m really consume myself at home. Recently, working on Clojurescript Exercism Track by myself. I’ve complete the launch of the track. But I need a Job, I need problem to solve. Thank you! 😇

scknkkrer 2020-08-14T09:31:41.152Z

I’m not contributing for an expectation. I’ve build a company from scratch, with these communities knowledge that they are sharing with no expectations. I love Computer Science. Especially, the Science part of this big picture. I would love to work without any exchange for my life. But I need to earn money too… Sorry for my bad English, my practice is not enough to keep it fluent.

2👍
p-himik 2020-08-14T09:34:12.152300Z

Your English is just fine, don't worry about it.

2☝️
p-himik 2020-08-13T10:28:43.135100Z

My first truly remote job was via Toptal, and there are other similar platforms. Not quite like Upwork - the competition is not that high. The trick is to find a platform that does rigorous filtering of contractors. But I would first advise you to do what I've done after - just find companies that you really want to work for, and contact them with a specific goal of getting a job there.

scknkkrer 2020-08-13T14:23:00.139200Z

Thank you, I’ll try and let you know about the result.

2020-08-13T14:25:35.139400Z

> I need problem to solve. I can give you some idea's of things to hack on. Might take me tell the weekend to get around to it. Broadly speaking, you can pick an opensource project and get involved. Doing this without a steady motivation and paycheck seems like a tall order though. Part of the reason it's been hard for me to go that route.

seancorfield 2020-08-13T15:36:48.139600Z

Yeah, she still resents that manager. And it was the last job she ever did -- I said if she didn't enjoy her job, to quit, and I could support us both, and then she could find something she really enjoyed. That was twenty years ago, and then she became a cat show judge (and has traveled all over the world for that job -- until COVID 19).

2👍
Darrell 2020-08-13T16:11:18.141200Z

That manager sounds like one I had. One of my co-workers showed him a solution that was efficient and elegant and worked and the manager replied, “That can’t work. That’s not enough code.”

sveri 2020-08-13T16:37:47.141400Z

It's nice that she found something she truly enjoys. I think we all had managers like this in the past, my wife has a history of that too (she was a chef, a restaurant manager and worked at amazon, all places that are not known for their friendliness). I always told her there are better places and finally, she found an awesome and friendly team in a hardware store which she truly enjoys going to. She also was devatasted by her last job at amazon because of how shitty a few people can be.

agigao 2020-08-13T16:39:35.142600Z

Hey there, a founder of my last gig decided to freeze the project until things do settle in the US, so I decide to brush up my resume and start looking for a new gig. Can someone please take a look at the resume? Any feedback is very much appreciated ^^

agigao 2020-08-13T16:40:52.142700Z

danieroux 2020-08-14T09:06:48.151600Z

Once interviewed an obvious pothead. He listed "irrigation systems" as one of his skills. For a dev position.

Aron 2020-08-14T09:15:12.151800Z

Depending on the job, it might be relevant. Surprisingly complex, those irrigation systems. XD

2020-08-16T20:14:56.153700Z

Also, you misspelled Computer Science

Aron 2020-08-16T22:59:50.153900Z

nothing that calls itself "science" is worth of notice x)

p-himik 2020-08-13T16:48:36.143Z

A note in advance - I have never hired people directly, so my opinion might not matter that much. But FWIW, I had to read through a lot of CVs. Overall, the CV is nice. But I have two main complaints: 1. It contains too many details and some information that will most likely be completely irrelevant for the potential employers 2. Consequently, it's way too long. The longest CV I've seen was 7 pages long. Yours is 5.

p-himik 2020-08-13T16:50:30.143200Z

One advice - don't create a CV in advance "just in case" with everything there's to tell. Unless someone specifically asks for that kind of CV. Usually you just want to tailor a CV specifically for some company. Someone needs an ML engineer? Great, write about that. Someone needs a Clojure expert? Great, you know what to focus on.

seancorfield 2020-08-13T17:29:10.144200Z

I'll second every comment above -- I've been a hiring manager for 25 years and I pretty much won't even look at a CV that is more than two pages, and I would definitely want to see one that is tailored to the specific job I'm hiring into, i.e., remove the irrelevant stuff.

seancorfield 2020-08-13T17:32:50.144500Z

It's super important that you enjoy your job or at least your work environment: a toxic work environment can have a really debilitating effect on you.

Darrell 2020-08-13T17:35:46.144700Z

That was my experience with this particular manager. He was so overly critical at everything I and others did that I locked up and really couldn’t be productive at all. I spent all my time second-guessing myself, wondering if what I was doing was going to be pointed out as being wrong by him. I later found out that he was hated by everyone at that company but the people he reported to. It turns out the only thing he is good at is making himself sound invaluable to his managers.

agigao 2020-08-13T17:45:12.144900Z

Previous one I was a single page resume and decided to go another way this time. I'll incorporate comments above into the resume and let's see what bakes in. Thanks for the feedback!

agigao 2020-08-13T17:47:15.145100Z

@janpotociar thanks!

1👍
synthomat 2020-08-13T18:22:22.147200Z

Longest CV I‘ve ever seen was 30 pages long 😄 didn’t read beyond second page, apparently the candidate was unable to focus on most important aspects

1😂
agigao 2020-08-13T18:29:31.147500Z

OMG :D Laughed hard!

agigao 2020-08-13T18:31:04.147700Z

Well, I was chopping of the parts from resume and what do you guys is not it informative/important to provide a little description of the nature of projects I completed for the company?

seancorfield 2020-08-13T18:38:35.148Z

For US jobs, all of page 5 and most of page 4 is not relevant/interesting (and to some extent actively discouraged). Page 1 is way too chatty and a lot of it is "blah blah" boilerplate that everyone puts on their CV ("flexible team player", "productively manage time" etc). I'd cut page 1 in half to really focus on what you bring to the table (and it should definitely be edited to reflect the specific job your would be applying for). Then you could edit pages 2 & 3 down to just under a page and a half and just note primary relevant education under that. It would all fit on two pages at that point.

seancorfield 2020-08-13T18:41:01.148200Z

Typically, HR screening folks want bullet points to check for skills match and seniority/experience level, and hiring managers still get hundreds of CVs to read and want a quick, two-page, bulleted list of highlights that should pop why you're different from everyone else (or at least why you'd be a great match for that specific job). You can add back some of the chatty stuff in a separate cover letter (which should definitely be tailored to each specific company and role!).

seancorfield 2020-08-13T18:43:25.148400Z

One thing that would be a red flag for many hiring managers is seeing skills in "Technology Highlights" that are not listed in any of the jobs you've done (Clojure, in this case), so if you're applying for a Clojure job, I'd expect to see in the covering letter some explanation of why you think you'd be a good hire for Clojure even though you have no commercial experience with it.

agigao 2020-08-13T18:45:17.148600Z

So, I better off change the layout I guess.

seancorfield 2020-08-13T18:46:41.148900Z

And then there's some nit-picky stuff which would stand out (to me) as detail-oriented issues: ReAgent (isn't it Reagent?), and AWS; Docker, !Kubernetes -- what's the ! about and why have ; between some items and , between others. I'm probably more OCD about this stuff than many managers but little things like that stand out and bug me...

seancorfield 2020-08-13T18:47:38.149100Z

Oh, and never put your date of birth on a CV if you're targeting US companies (and I'd probably say never do it for any region).

agigao 2020-08-13T18:50:05.149400Z

Gotcha. Thanks ^_^

scknkkrer 2020-08-13T20:08:07.149700Z

Exercism has a huge vision and I’m working on it daily. But, I need to make money to live.

scknkkrer 2020-08-13T20:08:49.149900Z

I love open-source. 😍

Aron 2020-08-13T20:35:31.150100Z

I saw a 30 page CV once, it had excerpts from the candidate's dreams...

Aron 2020-08-13T20:35:52.150300Z

Quotes from books she liked, etc.

3😂
2020-08-13T21:28:27.150900Z

60+ tech inverviews in 30 days feelsl like a forced scenario that wouldn't be good for anyone involved.