jobs-discuss

Job hunting, interview process and anything related to the experience of a job writing the Clojure language.
polymeris 2020-12-09T01:44:12.148200Z

I am curious... Is that gross or take home pay? Because at least here in Chile that's also a factor that confuses foreigners. Salaries, unless they are for very high paying positions, are always specified with tax and other deductions already applied.

seancorfield 2020-12-09T01:50:40.148500Z

@polymeris Oh that's interesting! Does Chile have a national healthcare system (paid with automatic deductions on salary)?

polymeris 2020-12-09T01:55:43.148700Z

Healthcare insurance is universal and everyone pays 7% unless very poor or very rich. However it's paid to your choice of either a private insurance provider or the state provider.

polymeris 2020-12-09T01:57:24.148900Z

If you make less than some amount you have to use the state provider. And if you make more than some amount that 7% is capped, making the wealthier people pay proportionally less.

polymeris 2020-12-09T01:58:53.149100Z

Similarly for pension fund, it's a fixed 10%, again capped if you are somewhere in the 2% of people who make most.

polymeris 2020-12-09T02:00:47.149300Z

(also paid to private pension funds)

seancorfield 2020-12-09T02:19:45.149700Z

I wish it were like that here! A lot of small companies here have no healthcare plans for their workers and no pension funds. The state pension system is minimally funded. Many people have no healthcare. Costs on the open market are ridiculously high and even with employer-supported health insurance, you often still have to contribute a chunk yourself, the insurance has a deductible amount that you have to pay before it kicks in and then it only pays a portion of your costs until your out of pocket costs hit a certain threshold. People go bankrupt here with medical bills or their die because they can't afford healthcare.

seancorfield 2020-12-09T02:21:01.149900Z

"here" = USA. I'm originally from England which has universal healthcare -- I pretty much never saw a bill for treatment until I moved to America twenty years ago (and my family are still in England and never pay a penny).

p-himik 2020-12-09T07:31:11.153Z

Just the last week I had an interview with a potential client that, as it turned out, wants me to use Hubstaff. An accompanying question was, while knowing full well what I charge for my time: "What's the lowest rate you could agree to?" 🤦 I am now waiting for the third horseman of the successful hiring - to never get back to me. Which is absolutely fine by me, given the above.

Jivago Alves 2020-12-09T08:13:40.153100Z

Should answer that with: "it depends on the highest rate you could agree to..."

p-himik 2020-12-09T08:15:24.153300Z

That would be the case only if their highest rate is higher than my current rate. :)

3😂
Jivago Alves 2020-12-09T08:13:40.153100Z

Should answer that with: "it depends on the highest rate you could agree to..."

p-himik 2020-12-09T08:15:24.153300Z

That would be the case only if their highest rate is higher than my current rate. :)

3😂
polymeris 2020-12-09T11:01:34.157400Z

To be clear: you still have to pay many things out of pocket here. Health insurance coverage varies a lot and the wealthier get to "shop around" with their 7% so they get much better coverage than the ones that are stuck with state insurance.

polymeris 2020-12-09T12:19:52.157800Z

Also perhaps the idea could work, but the implementation is all very sketchy. The pension and healthcare insurance providers are little mafias/lobbies with way too much influence, and the law if full of loopholes for the wealthy to reduce their taxes. But I disgress.

yaaminu 2020-12-09T15:11:16.160400Z

So I see a couple fo job postings in #remote-jobs that requires the applicant to be in Europe. Is that restriction purely because of timezone issues?

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helios 2020-12-10T10:52:25.168900Z

What i've been reading here is, to my understanding, spot on but only for companies which are requiring people to work on site, not remote, right?

helios 2020-12-10T10:53:07.169100Z

Once you are remote and are living not in the same country as where the company is based, there is basically no difference betwen you and another person outside of EU

helios 2020-12-10T10:54:00.169300Z

I.e. work happens as an external contractor and it's the problem of the contractor to figure out their own local regulation. Sometimes companies pay a little extra (they save some money by not hiring people, and they have the upside that getting rid of a contractor is much easier)

helios 2020-12-10T10:54:58.169500Z

In practice, @afolanyaaminu, you should just write to the companies themselves. If it's for remote work, i suspect that your location wouldn't be much of a difference if you're in EU or in Ghana

helios 2020-12-10T10:56:00.169700Z

but be aware that when it's time to get paid, the companies probably wouldn't want the hassle to figure out how to pay you, so they might expect you to use something like Transferwise and pay you in $, € (or GBP, but now i don't know with brexit)

helios 2020-12-10T10:56:32.169900Z

I see transferwise works with Ghana, so you probably won't have troubles

p-himik 2020-12-10T11:19:16.170100Z

On-site vs off-site has nothing to do with it. You can be an off-site employee or an on-site contractor. It's employee vs contractor that matters.

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yaaminu 2020-12-09T15:15:36.164Z

I ask this because I’m in Ghana (GMT-0) so i’m pretty much on the same timezone as europe and would like to apply but it’s unclear what EU-Only actually implies. This question of course goes to hiring managers from firms based in the EU.

Thomas 2020-12-09T15:20:02.164100Z

I guess it’s because it’s simpler. EU citizens can work in any member country without a work permit. https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=457&langId=en

p-himik 2020-12-09T15:21:29.164400Z

Indeed. But it's often possible to work with someone without being hired - e.g. as a contractor and/or through your own legal entity. If you're really interested in some position, you should definitely study your options and reach out for a discussion.

yaaminu 2020-12-09T15:22:35.164600Z

@thomas.boeglin I get that but I didn’t know it applies to remote

p-himik 2020-12-09T15:23:37.164800Z

It does apply as long as it's a regular hiring procedure, with social insurance and personal income tax and whatnot.

yaaminu 2020-12-09T15:26:26.165Z

@p-himik so social insurance, personal income tax, etc are the same across the EU?

p-himik 2020-12-09T15:27:33.165200Z

No, depends on the country.

p-himik 2020-12-09T15:28:02.165400Z

Well, and many other things of course, which in turn depend on the country themselves.

yaaminu 2020-12-09T15:31:27.165600Z

That’s why I asked, it’s not clear to me why they limit it to only the EU because employment regulations differ significantly across the EU as I’m aware. It’s a bit strange that they ignore an entire continent from their talent pool.

yaaminu 2020-12-09T15:33:47.165800Z

Besides, here in africa, we don’t have any strong job regulations (we don’t even set minimu wages). At least contractor based arrangement will be fine. The engineer will work on paying their own taxes.

p-himik 2020-12-09T15:35:26.166Z

AFAIK any company from EU can hire any EU citizen. It has nothing to do with taxes and social insurance - it just mentioned them to describe "the proper hiring procedure". As an employee that is, as opposed to a contractor. Any company can also hire people from other countries, but it requires a significant effort. Effort that's usually just not worth it.

p-himik 2020-12-09T15:40:39.166200Z

For example here in Cyprus, in order to hire a third-country national from outside the EU a company has to: - Do a background check of the applicant - Get a quota from the government for hiring third-country nationals, which is by itself a complicated procedure - Prove to the government that the applicant meets all the criteria and that there are no citizens with comparable skills (i.e. there are no locals that can be hired on this position) - Follow with the applicant through the process of getting a work visa It often takes months for a particular applicant to actually be able to start working.

enforser 2020-12-09T15:47:37.166400Z

As a Canadian who works in the US, the above is pretty much right. The biggest hurdle for my company is trying to explain to the government why they would hire me over someone who is a US citizen. My ability to work here is dependent on my formal education in CS and specializations for that specific job, not just that I am competent software engineer (since the US has plenty of those)

gklijs 2020-12-09T15:54:31.166600Z

I worked in a place where is was pretty ‘normal’ to get people from outside of the EU. But like @p-himik said there is a lot involved. At least in the Netherlands they do get a significant deduction on income tax. So it’s probably worth it eventually, as you can pay them less you would for an eu-citizen.

yaaminu 2020-12-09T17:21:46.167Z

@p-himik I think things now make sense to me.

yaaminu 2020-12-09T17:23:05.167200Z

I didn’t expect this though from the same countries that act like they care about us. Instead of sending foreign aid that only benefits the wealthy elites, they should open their markets to us.