Clojurians Log v2

@xlevus: Cheers. I enjoyed talking…it’s shutting me up that’s the problem (ask @otfrom!). I always like to make another convert to the Church of Emacs 😉

Morning

@mccraigmccraig: Let me know what you think of clj-refactor. I think it adds some missing goodness. Wish I knew enough elisp to actually contribute to it!

@agile_geek: i started using emacs the day before your talk, you got me even more convinced

I'm not 100% convinced about emacs (yet). But I think that's partially due to having vim so deeply ingraned I nearly end conversations with :q!

@quentin: cool. I’m still learning. Shout if you have issues and we can be confused together!

thanks :simple_smile:

@xlevus: If your happy with vim, stick with it (or try Evil mode in Emacs 😉 )

good morning

@agile_geek: I'm using spacemacs. And tbh I'm not overly happy with vim.

@xlevus: haven’t looked at spacemacs…what do you think of it?

It's quite vimmy. and I like the emacsy leader-combos with the little help dialog to find the next button to press

i tried it, but i don’t like getting too much customisation at once. i like adding it by small touches

the whole tabs/projects thing doesn't make sense to me yet. Usually with vim I've got multiple virtual desktops, each with a terminal vim instance, then multiple in-editor tabs each with 3 or 4 split buffers.

I’ve come from the world of Java IDE’s (Eclipse, Intellij, Netbeans) and I found moving back to just having buffers next to each other rather than tabs most productive part of using Emacs.

I would be interested to here if anyone heavily uses Light Table (which I’ve looked at very briefly 14 months ago) or NightCode (which I’ve not looked at at all)

*hear

i tried nightcode

it felt slow so i quickly moved on

don’t know if it improved on this side

all roads leads to emacs/vim, don’t fight it.

light table has been my clojure editor before emacs

I use LT a lot and quite like it...

but it has it flaws. sometimes you need to restart it for instance.

afaik light table needs some contributing. so anybody in the search of some projects to contribute to will be wlced there

@agile_geek: emacs lisp is much less scary since dash.el and s.el. as you know clojure already it should not be too difficult to pick up (just an other lisp 😉 )

@benedek: you are making a big leap assuming I know Clojure 😉

i’ve actually seen you do 😉

@benedek: I know. Just never got round to it (and need to ask my employer permission to work on it, which is a pain, al though they'd probably agree)

lately @rundis did some really nice work in LT around refactoring for clj, don’t know if he is around here… (not in #C0522EZ9N i guess…)

http://rundis.github.io/blog/archive.html

Can’t see LT surviving after chris left it.

That slot in the editor market is already filled by atom

So if you have time to spare, and want to avoid emacs/vim for religious reasons, put your efforts into better clojure support in atom.

@martintrojer: I think you are right regarding LT.... but my heart likes to think differently.

I think having invested a lot of time in emacs & given the pain I went through rewiring synapses to key bindings I’ll stick with it. Especially as it ends up being the OS rather than an editor! (love it or hate it!).

However, I’m trying to convince Java dev’s from the corporate world (like me) to use Clojure and Emacs is a step to far for them to learn at same time.

I haven’t used Cursive but given the number of Java dev’s who know and love IntelliJ IDEA I suspect this might suit them?

If you taken the jump to emacs then you’re sorted (for this life and the next)

but I agree, for the bigger picture of Clojure adoption emacs/vim is a blocker.

@martintrojer: I am converted, I have seen the light, kneel and worship in the Church of Emacs.

having said that, not sure I want armies for Java devs devouring our little language.

If emacs can keep them at bay, I’m kind of OK with that.

@martintrojer: 😉

@martintrojer: :simple_smile: indeed

@martintrojer: Not sure if I should be offended or not (as Java dev with 19 years experience) but I know what you mean. What do you feel about ex COBOL, Fortran programmers?

so doing a refactor-nrepl integration for atom then? anyone? 😉

I’m happy to have the good/interested ones come over. My fear if the zombie hordes.

i’ve done most of my java dev (10+ years) in emacs too btw

@benedek: that would be awesome, the atom community is pretty big already and now that Microsoft has come onboard….

You could probably carve yourself a nice career doing atom stuff

those times before 1.5 when emacs jdee gave nice support (even a REPL like beanshell)

it seems to be CoffeeScript tho mainly...

.. and C# :simple_smile:

@martintrojer: I think we are safe for the moment as the Zombie herd will struggle to write much Clojure. I found it hard to rewire brain.

oh well… i might have a go with it at some time. but really if anybody interested to give atom some clj/refactor love… let me know 😉

@martintrojer: It’s sad as I remember Java being cool kid on the block with lots of interesting potential. What happens when kids grow up and fall in with the wrong crowd!

i discovered paredit yesterday. Clojure becomes so much easier to write after that

@quentin: watershed moment

@quentin: paredit is a pre-requisite for Clojure in emacs but watch out for kill/yank breaking parens (C-q is your friend)

@agile_geek: a victim of its own success

offtopic. but jayzus, python editing in (spac)emacs is terrible.

thanks for the tip agile_geek

@quentin: no problem. Fixes unbalanced parens if you kill a region that you’ve manually marked & missed open/closing parens

me should have another look at emacs ...... again.

thomas: the brave clojure emacs tutorial is quite good if you want to get started easily

@thomas: example config for clj dev if you don’t go the spacemacs way: https://github.com/clojure-emacs/example-config

http://www.braveclojure.com/basic-emacs/

gives you cider, paredit, cljrefactor, flycheck for clojure

thanks guys. I'll have a look at it

@quentin: Selecting region by s-exp is way to avoid this issues too. C-M-spacebar when positioned on opening parens

will try this too, cool

and now, i need to make an org mode file to have a cheat sheet of interesting emacs keybindings

@agile_geek: ooo i didn't know C-M-spacebar... i've been using the more general C-spacebar, C-M-f

@mccraigmccraig: C-M-f and C-M-b are great for navigation around s-exprs

@mccraigmccraig: This has served me well in the past http://emacswiki.org/emacs/PareditCheatsheet

@broquaint: that's where i ended up :simple_smile:

used to have this lying around in the office when started with clj

@martintrojer: I didnt know Chris left lighttable

mate of mine still there I think, fierce smart

a year ago?

maybe less

this is what he does now https://vimeo.com/119406195

oh, thats the same thing though I think

LT became that

afaik

thats where my mate Jamie works

@thattommyhall: yeah, they're the same thing

LT just didn't fit their goals anymore, hence eve

their dev blog is interesting as hell: http://incidentalcomplexity.com/

they're all about dat datalog these days

that might be Jamies influence

he loves datalogs

he put me onto http://boom.cs.berkeley.edu/

which is top of my sabbatical list

yeah, I spent a bunch of time whilst on a road trip in autumn last year reading those papers

damn fine stuff

well, after Physics and Combinatorial Game Theory

(shoutout too sabbaticals)

yup

like Rich said, "when is the last time you thought about something without getting interrupted for a [day week month year]"