Clojurians Log v2

The securities are the royalties of music and art. For example an artist sells the royalties of an upcoming album, and investors buy it. When that album is released, bought, played or performed, the revenue from these sources contributes to the return of investment.

It’s hard to say whether music and art royalties are covered under the regulations

Who else has become very suspicious of “serverless” web frameworks that try to leverage cloud functions? Apparently people need a complex deployment architecture that doesn’t even provide the most basic functionality like file storage, sessions and even databases. Forget about websockets too. Then to access the mentioned functionality and probably more I’m supposed to talk to SaaS that is way overpriced for 99% of use-cases while just providing some basic functionality. What is the story here? Are they trying to sell me something I don’t need? Am I not the target audience? Is this overcomplicated cruft, cargo cult? Am I getting too old?

> Are they trying to sell me something I don’t need? Am I not the target audience? Most likely.

If you need anything that running a pure function can't give you, then IMO the "serverless" approach is not the right one.

https://twitter.com/swardley/status/1412001525191356418 is what I was reading as this message came in.

I think a lot of modern dev is cv driven development.

Same thing as with microservices. The exact same thing was happening when the approach was introduced. The concept is much older than "serverless", and I have heard the same exact things about it - "it's the future, soon everyone will use this architecture". Well, it certainly does exist, but I wouldn't say that everyone uses it now.

Is there a specific framework that you're frustrated by?

Not clojure related. Plus I don’t want to specifically bash anyone’s work. I observed this as a general, recent trend.

It is more that I’m confused. I don’t claim to know better.

Although my initial reaction above was very snarky…

Serverless is overhyped that’s a fact, although it's not as bad as you claim it to be. For some specific use cases Serverless makes sense.

Btw, what you claim serverless don’t have is actually wrong :D

I should do more learning then and less whining!

Yeah, I seem to be conflating "serverless" with "FaaS", while the latter is just a subset of the former.

I was also implying FaaS.

4Clojure is shutting down.

It was a fun, nice, resource for learning clojure

Don’t know about the frameworks, but serverless functions (in the cloud) are actually cheap and scale well and fast for peak traffic.

What are good places to put job ads nowadays, except for #jobs / #remote-jobs?

there's a monthly post on the clojure subreddit where you can add your job. probably not what you mean, though

I see FaaS as useful for some workloads and not so useful for others. We use FaaS quite a lot at work - specifically AWS Lambda - albeit with Kotlin (on JVM) rather than Clojure. We find that it works pretty well for asynchronous work (basically the lambda handles messages from an SQS queue) in situations where we don’t mind occasionally having to wait for a cold start but we don’t use it for anything that needs good interactive performance and/or guaranteed low latency.

We use aws lambda for mainly async work too, and sometimes in interactive mode, latencies are all right with the node.js runtime, you have also a preloading (~provisioning) feature if you really want good latencies but it’s more expensive and less scalable obviously.

Thanks for the tip. On the contrary, that's good information!

awesome! also we just started http://clojuremorsels.com so if you post it in jobs i can make sure it gets into the newsletter too

Some of the recommendations/observations from my side as the author of holy-lambda would be: • use language, a tool which guarantees low cold starts: if Clojure then babashka, native runtime, otherwise python/nodejs/golang/rust • don't use AWS Lambda for your core functionality, since you will probably pay more for AWS Lambda than you would for Kubernetes cluster + don’t use AWS Lambda for APIs which are heavily used, it's not cost-efficient, • If you think that the AWS Lambda stack is easy to manage and you don't need any “DevOps” skills then you are tremendously wrong! • Use AWS Lambda for async/not core stuff (mostly as a glue between the AWS services) to save 15/20% compared to regular compute options, • Monitor memory/invocation time to optimize the cost even further,

> don’t use AWS Lambda for APIs which are heavily used I disagree with this point, we’ve saved costs switching an endpoint from a “static” server to Lambda (hundreds of requests per minute). We’re using the http proxy from API gateway which is far cheaper than the rest api, maybe you’re talking about that.

;O what was the static server? You mean that you serve files from Lambda?

no I mean an ec2 instance behind an ELB, I was looking for the opposite word of “serverless” :thinking_face:

Bingo! =D

There's a huge discussion already about licences. Even on Github, they explicitly told that sometimes copilot copy-pasted the full GPL license on an empty file

(that, after saying that copilot will not copy, but derive, code. Typical Microsoft talk, to be honest, to make incomplete, false, or confusing statements)

I highly recommend this clojure D talk by the great Paula Gearon, if your interested in learning about how immutable datastructures are implemented. https://youtu.be/oD1WONpv6Xc I recommenced everything by her actually.

I don't think copilot necessarily implies that the target languages/frameworks have too much boilerplate. It certainly helps with spitting out boiler plate, but it's really common to have some starter code for specific tasks (eg. requiring the right namespaces and making a place to fill in data/functionality). In many cases, I wouldn't consider that "too much" boilerplate. Basically, anything that you would copy and paste from a Readme would be convenient as an auto suggestion from your IDE. IMO, Just about every clojure library has something like that.

I’m building a fully static (cljs + sci) version of it at http://4clojure.oxal.org 🙏 Source: https://github.com/oxalorg/4ever-clojure