Clojurians Log v2

“Not relying on a type system is unethical.” (from a talk about type systems) “Embrace the fact that Clojure is different and don’t be cowed by the proof people.” (Rich’s latest talk)

Yeah I was thinking of that earlier talk early last week; I recall it had 2 people from academia (if it was the same one you have in mind). He emphasized that it’s particularly unethical when it concerned money. I had a number of issues with that talk.

Hmm, can’t easily find it in Strange Loop’s nor ClojureTV’s youtube channels, so can’t really comment.

@tjg http://twitter.com/borkdude/status/919925962527080448

@borkdude Thanks!

I see the points of both sides. The issue I find with them is that they pull to extremes.

I like ML-like type systems and enjoy working with them, and also enjoy working on clojure, and it bothers me when both sides start talking down to each other.

If you remove that one -- very controversial and provocative -- "statement" from that presentation, the rest of the material is good stuff. One of their main points was that we don't have good enough type systems. When I wrote up my notes from Strange Loop 2014 http://seancorfield.github.io/blog/2014/09/25/the-strange-loop-2014/ I said "My takeaway: if you don’t like static typing, you have probably only used languages with bad or ugly type systems - but we’re not quite there yet in terms of capabilities…" and Paul Snively commented on my post (which surprised the heck out of me!): "Sean, thanks for the shout-out! Yours is honestly the best single summary of what Amanda and I were trying to convey I've seen. It's very gratifying!"

@fabrao@eraserhd @jstew @tjtolton I'm not surprised to see CoffeeScript so dreaded -- some of us were talking about that in the bar at Conj -- as I inherited a CoffeeScript project written for us by a third party.

http://www.davidykay.com/The-Type-War-Misunderstanding-and-Pragmatism/ i like this article about the different typing methodologies

(following on the conversation from #clojure about most loved, most wanted, most dreaded)

I've been doing Rails for a long time and never pushed for coffeescript in my projects. It's horrible. I'm not surprised either.

I remember liking it. 🙂 I guess this was before ES7, though.

JavaScript is the worst lisp. 😉

I work with the guy who wrote "Learning jQuery", so I handed all of the crazy UI parts to him. He's not a coffeescript fan either, and hated working on some of the stuff that some of the other front end guys would commit.

I do like ES7, though. I just hate the mess that NPM is.

Hey, since this is "other languages", what do we think about Idris? Good, bad, ugly, wtf?

I'm curious what Clojurians think, in general.

I have played with it a good bit. I like it better than haskell. I would be hard-pressed to think of a real world use to which I would put it though. Maybe like an impl of a wire protocol where the extra work to type all the things and write complete fns is worth it.

The editor integration is one of the more interesting bits to a repl-oriented lisper though… splitting cases and “find all extant fns that could satisfy this type signature” are very different.

Dependent types are interesting

@dominicm Feel free to discuss Go and Rust in here -- not #clojure

I got back unto a JS project for the first time in 3 years, and I’m not hating it. But we are using typescript, and have found that very pleasant.

@hlship Feel free to discuss Elixir etc here -- not in the main #clojure channel. Thanks.